Python, compared to PHP, is very terse, and it is perfectly suited for writing configuration files. I don’t see any advantage in using yaml when you can use python (except security?). This is what django does and it brings a flexibility that you cannot dream of with yaml.

I think this is why python programmers don’t often use yaml: python itself is good enough for describing data, and it brings you the enormous power of the language, why limit yourself with yaml?

If for some good reason python wouldn’t be possible for a given configuration file, then I would use yaml, but reluctantly.

People are going to love it once it we release documentation for it :)

My only big complaint about YAML is that I that its creators decided that mappings were unordered. So depending on which parser you use to read something like

this:
is: my
awesome:
map: see

The keys might come back in a different order. (We use Python bindings for syck, btw.) There also is some ambiguity about mappings with duplicate keys–syck will give you a list of tuples instead of a dictionary, but I remember other parsers just giving you a mapping with only the “last” key.

IMO ordered mappings with possible duplicate keys (like XML provides) can more naturally describe a greater range of data, which more than makes up for the little bit of extra thinking you have to do with the data once it’s parsed.

Now, I wouldn’t say people hate YAML so much as love Python way too much. I think every couple of days someone would run into Vellum, see that it had YAML and then propose some braindead Pythonic build format that involved tons of ugly decorators all over the place, complex functions, and they keep missing the point that I’m interested in making the builds safe to load and analyze. Can’t do that with Python because of the stopping problem. In fact, Google had to hack the Python interpreter (probably with Guido’s help) to prevent the average moron from breaking things. Proof right there a safer build format might be needed.

Honestly, Python isn’t the best format for everything no matter how good it is at code. YAML was good, but incredibly complex for the task. Now Vellum has a syntax I wrote because that’s fun (and it’s cleaner).

I think what I did find irritating wasn’t Pythonistas unwillingness to learn YAML, but that they had no objection to it when Google used it. But even my complaints about that were a total huge joke. Like I care that Google uses YAML. People from Planet Python should revel in the fact that they’re sanctified by lord Google.

So, watch for my later releases of Vellum, feel free to send me comments, and thanks for bringing up the question.

I could be completely wrong….

ToddB

We use YAML in python extensively at work.

Zed’s Opinions != Reality

@3: Don’t try to take Zed serious.

Regards,
Armin

I guess YAML is okay, but I always thought it was a bit too clever for its own good.

I suppose INI-files gained more traction within the python community and for YAML’s seeming simplicity, the library comes across quiet heavy.

Please stop propagating Zed Shaw’s nonsense. We should all be concerned that he now wants to be part of the Python, because all he sows is hatred, arrogance and sadness.

As your post proves it …