Comments on: Django’s Problems and Why 2.0 is a Bad Idea http://lucumr.pocoo.org/cogitations/2007/12/12/djangos-problems-and-why-20-is-a-bad-idea/ Armin Ronacher thinking Mon, 07 Jul 2008 10:24:15 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2 By: Extenuating Circumstances – links for 2008-01-07 http://lucumr.pocoo.org/cogitations/2007/12/12/djangos-problems-and-why-20-is-a-bad-idea/#comment-1459 Extenuating Circumstances – links for 2008-01-07 Mon, 07 Jan 2008 10:20:53 +0000 http://lucumr.pocoo.org/cogitations/2007/12/12/djangos-problems-and-why-20-is-a-bad-idea/#comment-1459 [...] Lucumr Cogitations » Blog Archive » Django’s Problems and Why 2.0 is a Bad Idea (tags: comparison django rails ruby webdev python orm curse fork development) [...] […] Lucumr Cogitations » Blog Archive » Django’s Problems and Why 2.0 is a Bad Idea (tags: comparison django rails ruby webdev python orm curse fork development) […]

]]> By: Benjamin Wiegand http://lucumr.pocoo.org/cogitations/2007/12/12/djangos-problems-and-why-20-is-a-bad-idea/#comment-1115 Benjamin Wiegand Sat, 15 Dec 2007 19:39:29 +0000 http://lucumr.pocoo.org/cogitations/2007/12/12/djangos-problems-and-why-20-is-a-bad-idea/#comment-1115 Thanks for your Post, AndrewSK. Your sollution is dirty but works :) Thanks for your Post, AndrewSK. Your sollution is dirty but works :)

]]> By: Empty http://lucumr.pocoo.org/cogitations/2007/12/12/djangos-problems-and-why-20-is-a-bad-idea/#comment-1102 Empty Sat, 15 Dec 2007 01:52:12 +0000 http://lucumr.pocoo.org/cogitations/2007/12/12/djangos-problems-and-why-20-is-a-bad-idea/#comment-1102 Great post. I think Django is great. I blog about it, I write about it, and I spend considerable time helping people learn it. That said I think it's important to make a fair assessment about your strengths and weaknesses as a project, and constantly work to produce something that's better. I agree with you on the whole 2.0 version number thing. It's nonsense. Great post. I think Django is great. I blog about it, I write about it, and I spend considerable time helping people learn it. That said I think it’s important to make a fair assessment about your strengths and weaknesses as a project, and constantly work to produce something that’s better.

I agree with you on the whole 2.0 version number thing. It’s nonsense.

]]> By: AndrewSK http://lucumr.pocoo.org/cogitations/2007/12/12/djangos-problems-and-why-20-is-a-bad-idea/#comment-1067 AndrewSK Thu, 13 Dec 2007 07:08:37 +0000 http://lucumr.pocoo.org/cogitations/2007/12/12/djangos-problems-and-why-20-is-a-bad-idea/#comment-1067 Have you tried monkey patching the User model itself, to add the number of user posts directly to User? It's incredibly easy. http://www.amitu.com/blog/2007/july/django-extending-user-model/ Have you tried monkey patching the User model itself, to add the number of user posts directly to User? It’s incredibly easy.

http://www.amitu.com/blog/2007/july/django-extending-user-model/

]]> By: james http://lucumr.pocoo.org/cogitations/2007/12/12/djangos-problems-and-why-20-is-a-bad-idea/#comment-1065 james Thu, 13 Dec 2007 04:51:39 +0000 http://lucumr.pocoo.org/cogitations/2007/12/12/djangos-problems-and-why-20-is-a-bad-idea/#comment-1065 @AkitaOnRails: Django and Rails are both good web frameworks for the reason both of them are having a success. Since you're a rails user. does rails has something like Django's newforms? And I like what you can do to Django's middleware very powerful :). The only room for improvement I think Django should do is for the templates. In the end I agree with casseen, it's python vs ruby. @Armin: Thanks for informing that SQLAlchemy is getting easier to use :) Cheers @AkitaOnRails: Django and Rails are both good web frameworks for the reason both of them are having a success. Since you’re a rails user. does rails has something like Django’s newforms? And I like what you can do to Django’s middleware very powerful :). The only room for improvement I think Django should do is for the templates. In the end I agree with casseen, it’s python vs ruby.

@Armin: Thanks for informing that SQLAlchemy is getting easier to use :)

Cheers

]]> By: herald http://lucumr.pocoo.org/cogitations/2007/12/12/djangos-problems-and-why-20-is-a-bad-idea/#comment-1057 herald Thu, 13 Dec 2007 01:12:45 +0000 http://lucumr.pocoo.org/cogitations/2007/12/12/djangos-problems-and-why-20-is-a-bad-idea/#comment-1057 "But the point is not rails vs django but rather python vs ruby. And as you all know, python is like poetry ; )" Ruby is cleaner (except for 'end', but python forces you to indent+':' so that is not a huge compensational win, since you cant choose to not have that) than python. The ambiguity cat.meow() is a joke, the variable mandatory "self" name in python is a joke too. (I am not saying python itself is a joke, python has some great things going for it, which you notice if you see that really many use python) To be honest... i think both python and ruby lost the battle of the www to... PHP And this makes me sad. Php is a horrible language, but people use it. Everyone talks about the www. Django and RoR are web FRAMEWORKs. WEB! This is where PHP won, and both python and ruby should focus in GOOD deal with the www. Www is all about interacting with other people. We dont need a fancy erlang - we need software from people, for people. And when i write people, I mean BILLIONS of people! Everyone is a user! The www has won. PHP won the first round, it is time to make it lose again! “But the point is not rails vs django but rather python vs ruby. And as you all know, python is like poetry ; )”
Ruby is cleaner (except for ‘end’, but python forces you to indent+’:’ so that is not a huge compensational win, since you cant choose to not have that) than python. The ambiguity cat.meow() is a joke, the variable mandatory “self” name in python is a joke too. (I am not saying python itself is a joke, python has some great things going for it, which you notice if you see that really many use python)

To be honest… i think both python and ruby lost the battle of the www to…
PHP

And this makes me sad. Php is a horrible language, but people use it.

Everyone talks about the www. Django and RoR are web FRAMEWORKs.
WEB! This is where PHP won, and both python and ruby should focus
in GOOD deal with the www. Www is all about interacting with other people.
We dont need a fancy erlang - we need software from people, for people. And
when i write people, I mean BILLIONS of people! Everyone is a user!

The www has won.

PHP won the first round, it is time to make it lose again!

]]> By: casseen http://lucumr.pocoo.org/cogitations/2007/12/12/djangos-problems-and-why-20-is-a-bad-idea/#comment-1054 casseen Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:46:11 +0000 http://lucumr.pocoo.org/cogitations/2007/12/12/djangos-problems-and-why-20-is-a-bad-idea/#comment-1054 Rails is great and in my op is a littel more mature than django and other python frameworks. But the point is not rails vs django but rather python vs ruby. And as you all know, python is like poetry ; ) Rails is great and in my op is a littel more mature than django and other python frameworks. But the point is not rails vs django but rather python vs ruby. And as you all know, python is like poetry ; )

]]> By: Armin Ronacher http://lucumr.pocoo.org/cogitations/2007/12/12/djangos-problems-and-why-20-is-a-bad-idea/#comment-1052 Armin Ronacher Wed, 12 Dec 2007 19:25:10 +0000 http://lucumr.pocoo.org/cogitations/2007/12/12/djangos-problems-and-why-20-is-a-bad-idea/#comment-1052 @AkitaOnRails: Python has more to offer than just Django. If one wants something like rails there is Pylons or a custom WSGI application which, thanks to SQLAlchemy, gives you a very good database access. Seriously. Replacing Django with Rails is like switching from one evil to the other. And even if Rails still leads the framework war, Django is doing great progress. I just don't think that it's ready for 2.0 *yet* :-) Regards, Armin @AkitaOnRails: Python has more to offer than just Django. If one wants something like rails there is Pylons or a custom WSGI application which, thanks to SQLAlchemy, gives you a very good database access. Seriously. Replacing Django with Rails is like switching from one evil to the other. And even if Rails still leads the framework war, Django is doing great progress.

I just don’t think that it’s ready for 2.0 *yet* :-)

Regards,
Armin

]]> By: AkitaOnRails http://lucumr.pocoo.org/cogitations/2007/12/12/djangos-problems-and-why-20-is-a-bad-idea/#comment-1050 AkitaOnRails Wed, 12 Dec 2007 19:09:23 +0000 http://lucumr.pocoo.org/cogitations/2007/12/12/djangos-problems-and-why-20-is-a-bad-idea/#comment-1050 Though I realize this is a Django discussion, I couldn't resist trying a bit of Rails here. For those of you that never tried Rails, I've compiled a very very speed up "Rails 2.0 Screencast":http://www.akitaonrails.com/2007/12/10/the-first-rails-2-0-screencast-english. In less than 30 min you can see some of the new features and what can be accomplished. About Rails not having an Admin app, it can be an advantage or disadvantage depending on your point of view. If you're mainly dealing with content management, this is a plus. Though mixing a Framework with a highly integrated App is arguably an optimal situation. I'd like to have Rails being the kitchen-sink and I can later add ActiveScaffold, for example, if I want very fast admin screens. Authentication can be done is several different ways and I also don't think it belongs to the framework, as we have several plugins to tackle this matter as well. That said, I also don't think there only needs to be one framework, there is room for DJango, Rails, and many more. Though I realize this is a Django discussion, I couldn’t resist trying a bit of Rails here. For those of you that never tried Rails, I’ve compiled a very very speed up “Rails 2.0 Screencast”:http://www.akitaonrails.com/2007/12/10/the-first-rails-2-0-screencast-english. In less than 30 min you can see some of the new features and what can be accomplished.

About Rails not having an Admin app, it can be an advantage or disadvantage depending on your point of view. If you’re mainly dealing with content management, this is a plus. Though mixing a Framework with a highly integrated App is arguably an optimal situation. I’d like to have Rails being the kitchen-sink and I can later add ActiveScaffold, for example, if I want very fast admin screens. Authentication can be done is several different ways and I also don’t think it belongs to the framework, as we have several plugins to tackle this matter as well.

That said, I also don’t think there only needs to be one framework, there is room for DJango, Rails, and many more.

]]> By: Marcelo Fernández http://lucumr.pocoo.org/cogitations/2007/12/12/djangos-problems-and-why-20-is-a-bad-idea/#comment-1049 Marcelo Fernández Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:55:13 +0000 http://lucumr.pocoo.org/cogitations/2007/12/12/djangos-problems-and-why-20-is-a-bad-idea/#comment-1049 Hi Armin, I couldn't agree more with you. I've implemented Django and "suffered" the same things (mainly) with the ORM layer. On the other side, I think the template system is great, and the Jinja library is there to expand it. http://jinja.pocoo.org/ Cheers! Marcelo Hi Armin, I couldn’t agree more with you. I’ve implemented Django and “suffered” the same things (mainly) with the ORM layer. On the other side, I think the template system is great, and the Jinja library is there to expand it.

http://jinja.pocoo.org/

Cheers!
Marcelo

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